Answers
Jan 29, 2012 - 10:39 AM
I'd also love to hear it if someone has insight into this! However, I will say that it's not something to worry about too much. In my personal experience learning the language, it was just one of those things that I naturally became more familiar with. For example, I'd never say "Eso es una idea buena". Instead, I'd say "Eso es una buena idea". I doubt that the first way is incorrect, but you just don't hear it said that much and therefore I naturally say it the second way.
Also, what you said about "muy" isn't really true. Using my previous example, I think it's far more common to hear "Eso es una muy buena idea".
To get a sense of how common one form is vs. the other, just search for a phrase with quotes around it in Google and compare the number of search results. Here's what I get for the examples in question:
idea buena : 1,210,000
buena idea: 32,400,000
>> "buena idea" is nearly 27 times more common.
idea muy buena: 2,840,000
muy buena idea: 36,000,000
>> "muy buena idea" is nearly 13 times more common.
Also, what you said about "muy" isn't really true. Using my previous example, I think it's far more common to hear "Eso es una muy buena idea".
To get a sense of how common one form is vs. the other, just search for a phrase with quotes around it in Google and compare the number of search results. Here's what I get for the examples in question:
idea buena : 1,210,000
buena idea: 32,400,000
>> "buena idea" is nearly 27 times more common.
idea muy buena: 2,840,000
muy buena idea: 36,000,000
>> "muy buena idea" is nearly 13 times more common.
Jan 29, 2012 - 02:01 PM
Well, that is just my point, in the exercises to this point, Bueno has usually been placed before the noun. But, again, in lesson 20 of Spanish 4, Sonia reiterates the point: "buen if before the noun, bueno if after." Granted what you say about "muy bueno," I don't think I can recall a singl case of unmodified bueno being put after the noun, at least in Fluenz exercises. So, my original point, when is "buen" used?
In lesson 20, now the program will not accept "bueno regalo" but will only accept "buen regalo" or "regalo bueno."
In lesson 20, now the program will not accept "bueno regalo" but will only accept "buen regalo" or "regalo bueno."
Jan 30, 2012 - 10:42 AM
Hi James- can you point to an example where we have used bueno before the noun? There are very specific cases which are actually the exception of the rule, like buenos días (still notice the plural form).. We break down the usage of adjectives little by little-- but in general "buen" is used before the noun- therefor "buen regalo" and "regalo bueno" are the correct forms. If you stand by that rule you will make little mistakes. But happy to clarify any exceptions.
Feb 01, 2012 - 08:38 AM
Well, that is a hard thing to search, probably more examples in earlier Spanish programs (more elementary ones). A quick look at session 18 gives "El año pasado alquilaron una buena bicicleta allá" and "Quisiera llevar una buena botella de vino a la fiesta". But I did find an example of Bueno coming after, and several of muy bueno coming after. Anyway, I'll try to stick to the buen/bueno rule in the future.
Feb 01, 2012 - 10:29 AM
Should have been more precise- the buen and bueno issues is only in the masculine :) Buena is a different story. Buena botella or botella buena work well, yet you say buen restaurante and restaurante bueno ... buen aceite de oliva vs. aceite de oliva bueno---
Feb 01, 2012 - 11:03 AM
OK, got it, thanks!