Answers
Feb 09, 2013 - 08:06 AM
I would like some clarification on this as well. It seems that the further away the reflexive verb gets from the auxiliary verb (as in your example where "dovere" is in between), then the more likely the use of avere over essere. At least based on my practice with the flashcards, etc.
Feb 09, 2013 - 03:12 PM
With the reflexive verbs there are two options:
1. auxiliary avere: abbiamo dovuto trasferirci; ref. pronoun gets on the end of the "main" verb, past participle of dovere is always the same: lei ha dovuto trasferirsi, lui ha dovuto trasferirsi, io ho dovuto trasferirmi,....
2. auxiliary essere: ci siamo dovuti trasferire; ref. pronoun is before auxiliary, past participle of dovere must agree (as always) in number and gender, so: lei si è dovuta trasferire, lui si è dovuto trasferire, io (masc.) mi sono dovuto trasferire,....
1. auxiliary avere: abbiamo dovuto trasferirci; ref. pronoun gets on the end of the "main" verb, past participle of dovere is always the same: lei ha dovuto trasferirsi, lui ha dovuto trasferirsi, io ho dovuto trasferirmi,....
2. auxiliary essere: ci siamo dovuti trasferire; ref. pronoun is before auxiliary, past participle of dovere must agree (as always) in number and gender, so: lei si è dovuta trasferire, lui si è dovuto trasferire, io (masc.) mi sono dovuto trasferire,....
Feb 09, 2013 - 05:02 PM
Mitja, Grazie tanto. I don't think this was explained very well in the sessions dealing with the past reflexive. Does the program accept either option as correct? Obviously, I did not understand this correctly, First, I thought that any time one used the past tense with a reflexive verb that you must use essere as the auxiliary verb. Second, I thought that it didn't matter whether one placed the reflexive pronoun before the auxiliary or combined it with the infinitive reflexive verb. Thank you, again for your clarification.
Feb 10, 2013 - 10:18 AM
John, I'm quiet sure that the program accepts both options. After the session in which this was explained (was it section 6?) I trained this with first typing first option, then clicking on BACK and typing the other option. Buona fortuna, Mitja
Feb 18, 2013 - 12:24 AM
I believe that the correct auxiliary verb should be "essere" because trasferirsi is a reflexive verb and the grammatical rule is that "essere" should be used as the auxiliary for reflexive verbs.
Feb 23, 2013 - 08:09 PM
Robert, I too thought that you were supposed to use "essere" as the auxiliary but the program required the answer "abbiamo dovuto trasferirci" rather than using "essere". Mitja's explanation made sense in terms of what the program accepts...i.e. it will accept either "avere: as the auxiliary if the pronoun is attached to the main verb and it will also accept "essere" as the auxiliary if the pronoun preceeds the auxilary. So, just as Mitja said, it will accept both options as long as you place the pronoun in the correct place. I asked an Italian friend (lives in Italy) what was correct and he said that you were supposed to use "essere". So, I am very confused...can someone from Fluenz comment?.
Feb 26, 2013 - 08:05 PM
This was explained in session 4, though I will say that I had to review this session a few times to understand it. Both responses are accepted in the exercises. However, I do think that Sophia's explanation was not quite correct. She says that when the reflexive verb is "conjugated" and the pronoun is before the auxiliary verb, then essere is used. HOwever, the example she provides does not show a conjugated reflexive verb. I think what she means to say is:
1. If the pronoun is attached to the reflexive verb (at the end), the you can use avere as the auxiliary verb,
2. If the pronouns comes before the auxiliary verb, then you use essere.
The lack of clarification is that earlier she indicated that the past tense of reflexives requires essere.
1. If the pronoun is attached to the reflexive verb (at the end), the you can use avere as the auxiliary verb,
2. If the pronouns comes before the auxiliary verb, then you use essere.
The lack of clarification is that earlier she indicated that the past tense of reflexives requires essere.