Answers
May 06, 2014 - 02:09 AM
How's it going James. Dativ is used for an Indirect Object, an object that indirectly benefits from whatever is going on in the sentence. Of course Dativ could also be used if you wanted to say, I brought my book in order to study with you. "ich habe mein Buch mitgebracht um mit dir zu studieren", but you would be using, "mit" which is one of those key words that indicates that Dativ is proceeding.
Other than that, I'm sure it's normally always Akkusativ.
Take what I say with a grain of Salt. I speak German a lot better than I write it. This is why I bought the course, to help me with my grammar.
By the way, when you are unabel to use an Umlaut, you can follow a vowel with an "e" to make the sound. For example. Koenig for King. Universitaet for University; Gemuese for Vegetables;
Other than that, I'm sure it's normally always Akkusativ.
Take what I say with a grain of Salt. I speak German a lot better than I write it. This is why I bought the course, to help me with my grammar.
By the way, when you are unabel to use an Umlaut, you can follow a vowel with an "e" to make the sound. For example. Koenig for King. Universitaet for University; Gemuese for Vegetables;
May 06, 2014 - 02:43 AM
Deutsch ist schwer. Um can be both a dativ and akusativ preposition depending on the context. In fact, many prepositions can have multiple cases.
Er stellt das Buch auf den Tisch.
Das Buch steht auf dem Tisch.
For the 'um..zu..' structure, the clause after um is akusativ unless another part of that clause modifies it as dativ.
For example:
Ich gehe zum Supermarkt, um einen Kaffee für meine Frau zu kaufen.
Or
Ich gehe zur Sprachschule, um mir mit meinem Deutsch zu helfen.
I wouldn't worry too much about the rules for when prepositions take the akusativ or dativ case, just practice and memorize. Eventually you'll learn the rules or get used to the fact the rules don't always apply.
I know this answer probably doesn't help much, weil Deutsch schwer ist.
Er stellt das Buch auf den Tisch.
Das Buch steht auf dem Tisch.
For the 'um..zu..' structure, the clause after um is akusativ unless another part of that clause modifies it as dativ.
For example:
Ich gehe zum Supermarkt, um einen Kaffee für meine Frau zu kaufen.
Or
Ich gehe zur Sprachschule, um mir mit meinem Deutsch zu helfen.
I wouldn't worry too much about the rules for when prepositions take the akusativ or dativ case, just practice and memorize. Eventually you'll learn the rules or get used to the fact the rules don't always apply.
I know this answer probably doesn't help much, weil Deutsch schwer ist.
Jun 04, 2014 - 12:27 PM
Hi James
To answer your question: the structure "um zu" doesn't automatically need a specific case unlike the preposition "zu" (to) which needs the dative. What we need to do is look at that part of the sentence and dissect it
You (i/p) want to go to Berlin from Wednesday to Sunday in order to see the college
So you got the first part spot on:
You (i/p) want to go to Berlin from Wednesday to Sunday
Ihr moechtet (just to illustrate how you can get around those umlauts) von Mittwoch bis Sonntag nach Berlin fahren
And now we have:
in order to see the college
So the implied subject is still you(i/p) - ihr - but because we have this "in order to" - um zu - we don't mention it like in English. Then we have the verb in infinitive form "to see" - zu sehen. Remember that this part goes at the end. And now "the college". To work out which case it is we can ask the question:
In order to see what?
And this what gives you a big clue that we are asking for a direct object which as you know needs the accusative case. And because "college" - Universitaet - is feminine it would be "die Universitaet".
So the 2nd part of the sentence would be:
in order to see the college
um die Universitaet zu sehen
Let's take a look at an example where we have both accusative and dative in the "um zu" part:
Ich gehe in die Stadt, um dir (= wem? dative) ein Kleid (=was? accusative) zu kaufen
I'm going into the city in order to buy you a dress.
Or to make it clearer in English:
I'm going into the city in order to buy a dress (=what?) for you (=for who?).
I hope this helps!
To answer your question: the structure "um zu" doesn't automatically need a specific case unlike the preposition "zu" (to) which needs the dative. What we need to do is look at that part of the sentence and dissect it
You (i/p) want to go to Berlin from Wednesday to Sunday in order to see the college
So you got the first part spot on:
You (i/p) want to go to Berlin from Wednesday to Sunday
Ihr moechtet (just to illustrate how you can get around those umlauts) von Mittwoch bis Sonntag nach Berlin fahren
And now we have:
in order to see the college
So the implied subject is still you(i/p) - ihr - but because we have this "in order to" - um zu - we don't mention it like in English. Then we have the verb in infinitive form "to see" - zu sehen. Remember that this part goes at the end. And now "the college". To work out which case it is we can ask the question:
In order to see what?
And this what gives you a big clue that we are asking for a direct object which as you know needs the accusative case. And because "college" - Universitaet - is feminine it would be "die Universitaet".
So the 2nd part of the sentence would be:
in order to see the college
um die Universitaet zu sehen
Let's take a look at an example where we have both accusative and dative in the "um zu" part:
Ich gehe in die Stadt, um dir (= wem? dative) ein Kleid (=was? accusative) zu kaufen
I'm going into the city in order to buy you a dress.
Or to make it clearer in English:
I'm going into the city in order to buy a dress (=what?) for you (=for who?).
I hope this helps!