Answers
Apr 14, 2015 - 10:19 AM
Subject+ Verb+ I.O.+ Time+ Manner+ Place+ D.O.+ Infinitive/Past Participle
Subject+ Verb+ D.O. Pronoun+ I.O. Noun+ Time+ Manner+ Place+ Infinitive/Past Participle
Subject+ Verb+ I.O. Pronoun+ D.O. Pronoun+ Time+ Manner+ Place+ Infinitive/Past Participle
This is the sentence structure. I believe that you will learn it later but here it is now in case you would like it. Hope this helps!
Subject+ Verb+ D.O. Pronoun+ I.O. Noun+ Time+ Manner+ Place+ Infinitive/Past Participle
Subject+ Verb+ I.O. Pronoun+ D.O. Pronoun+ Time+ Manner+ Place+ Infinitive/Past Participle
This is the sentence structure. I believe that you will learn it later but here it is now in case you would like it. Hope this helps!
Apr 14, 2015 - 06:39 PM
My question is the variation in the placement of the temporal modifier in structures 1 and 3? Other than its varied position, the word order is identical. Is this just a matter of semantic pragmatics?
Apr 14, 2015 - 06:46 PM
Looking again at your comment, is the distinction between whether the d.o. is a pronoun or a common noun?
Apr 17, 2015 - 04:38 PM
And again, level 2, lesson 30: "Sie müssen ihr Auto morgen zurückgeben" Here again the temporal phrase follows the d.o. Why does this vary from the typical word order we have learned?
Apr 23, 2015 - 12:00 PM
Ok rltroxel, thank you for being patient with me in waiting for a response. I wanted to get this absolutely right before I explained this to you. The word order I provided is what Fluenz uses to explain word order. This is just a general structure that can be used for repetition and practice for beginners. In reality, there are no set rules for German (or for English really) and no one set correct word order. When you speak German you have the liberty to switch word orders based on emphasis or meaning. There are many nuances in languages that don’t really have a set rule base. This is how I kind of try to keep them straight. (disclaimer: this might make your learning more complicated as the concept is not really beginner material)
The way I think of German (and Im still a beginner also) word order is this: the important part of the sentence goes towards the end. And I know that this is confusing now so let me explain myself :)
The way I think of German (and Im still a beginner also) word order is this: the important part of the sentence goes towards the end. And I know that this is confusing now so let me explain myself :)
Apr 23, 2015 - 12:00 PM
If you had someone say: “Ich bin” (I am); your first inclination would be to say “where or what” right? Which makes those the “most important” information that you need. “Ich war gestern im Buero” (I was in the office yesterday) The “where” (Buero) in this sentence is more important that the when (gestern), so it would go at the end. “Ich war im Buero gestern” Sounds odd without more information, because you put the EMPHASIS on gestern. In this sentence the where is much more important than the when. So look at these words: Trinken, Ich, ein Bier, im Park, gestern So you have what, where, and when in these parts. If I came up to you and said “Ich trinke” you naturally would say “what” right? So the what is probably the most important part of the sentence after the subject and verb. So this should go at the end. Ich habe gestern im Park ein Bier getrunken. (past participle will go at the very end: but the “what” is behind the where and when) It would sound odd to say “Ich habe gestern ein Bier im Park getrunken” because the emphasis is on the location. BUT not “wrong”. That would be like responding “where” to my “Ich trinke” statement. Which isn’t wrong, you are just stressing the location instead of the what I am drinking. It almost needs a continuation "..im Park getrucken, aber nicht in.."
Apr 23, 2015 - 12:01 PM
Now lets look at your example: “Wir möchten vor sieben Uhr etwas essen” We want: is the subject and the verb. Your first initial question to that would probably be: “You want WHAT?” Well you want something (etwas) so that should go at the end because it is the more important information, not the time. You wouldn’t say “What time?” (vor sieben Uhr) to the statement “We want”.
Müssen Sie das Auto vor elf Uhr zurückgeben? This has a little nuance within the sentence. Its emphasis is on the time that the car is due back. It creates a little tension, almost like it would have a continuation: vor elf Uhr? Oder vor zwoelf Uhr? Where the time is stressed instead of the “what” which is the car. Muessen Sie vor elf Uhr das Auto zurueckgeben? Is logical as well, and seems more natural it just has a different emphasis. Hopefully this has not confused you anymore, and if it has you can’t blame me I provided a disclaimer! :)
This “rule” that I have provided does not always work and there are obviously many counterexamples. Like I said, there are no set rules and the word order that Fluenz provides is a great tool to use in learning the different word order. It allows you to repeatedly practice the language and get comfortable with forming sentences and thoughts. So I would suggest using the word order I provided above to start. Viel Spass!
Müssen Sie das Auto vor elf Uhr zurückgeben? This has a little nuance within the sentence. Its emphasis is on the time that the car is due back. It creates a little tension, almost like it would have a continuation: vor elf Uhr? Oder vor zwoelf Uhr? Where the time is stressed instead of the “what” which is the car. Muessen Sie vor elf Uhr das Auto zurueckgeben? Is logical as well, and seems more natural it just has a different emphasis. Hopefully this has not confused you anymore, and if it has you can’t blame me I provided a disclaimer! :)
This “rule” that I have provided does not always work and there are obviously many counterexamples. Like I said, there are no set rules and the word order that Fluenz provides is a great tool to use in learning the different word order. It allows you to repeatedly practice the language and get comfortable with forming sentences and thoughts. So I would suggest using the word order I provided above to start. Viel Spass!
Apr 23, 2015 - 12:07 PM
Sorry if its hard to read..Fluenz messes with my formats