Answers
Sep 02, 2015 - 06:31 AM
Hi Fabrice, could you please let us know where exactly you found this sentence so that we can have a look into this for you. Thanks
Sep 02, 2015 - 12:51 PM
It's in Mandarin 1+2, session 44, "Write the phrase you read". In english it shows "Can I use this ticket here". It says the answer should be Zài zhèli wǒ kěyǐ yòng zhè ge piào ma? which is in contradiction with what Sonia explains in lesson 33 about the fact that kěyǐ is an exception and the location should be after, not before?
Sep 04, 2015 - 02:18 AM
I'd also like to hear what Fluenz has to say.
My understanding is that the question being asked really is meant to be as follows: “Is THIS PLACE HERE where I can use this ticket?” The location comes first as a way to emphasize that you’re asking “Is this the right place?” (as opposed to “Is using a ticket THE THING THAT I can do here?”). So basically, you’re asking about this place “zài zhèli” as a Questionable Subject to be answered, not as a general location.
To recap Fluenz’ structure:
[Subject/Time] [Special Modifier: yào-kěyǐ-qù] [Verb] [Object]
[Questionable Subject - At this place], [Subject - I] [Special Modifier - can] [Verb - use] [Object - this ticket]?
Fluenz - Mandarin Pinyin: Zài zhèli, wǒ kěyǐ yòng zhè ge piào ma?
Additionally, Session 40 contains a sentence with this same structure:
English: Where can I buy subway tickets?
Mandarin Structure: At Where, I can buy subway tickets?
Fluenz - Mandarin Pinyin: Zài nǎli, wǒ kěyǐ mǎi dìtiě piào?
My understanding is that the question being asked really is meant to be as follows: “Is THIS PLACE HERE where I can use this ticket?” The location comes first as a way to emphasize that you’re asking “Is this the right place?” (as opposed to “Is using a ticket THE THING THAT I can do here?”). So basically, you’re asking about this place “zài zhèli” as a Questionable Subject to be answered, not as a general location.
To recap Fluenz’ structure:
[Subject/Time] [Special Modifier: yào-kěyǐ-qù] [Verb] [Object]
[Questionable Subject - At this place], [Subject - I] [Special Modifier - can] [Verb - use] [Object - this ticket]?
Fluenz - Mandarin Pinyin: Zài zhèli, wǒ kěyǐ yòng zhè ge piào ma?
Additionally, Session 40 contains a sentence with this same structure:
English: Where can I buy subway tickets?
Mandarin Structure: At Where, I can buy subway tickets?
Fluenz - Mandarin Pinyin: Zài nǎli, wǒ kěyǐ mǎi dìtiě piào?
Sep 04, 2015 - 09:53 AM
Thanks skykid14 for jumping into this. I see what you're saying, so how would you translate wǒ kěyǐ zài nǎli mǎi dìtiě piào? as opposed to Zài nǎli wǒ kěyǐ mǎi dìtiě piào?
Sep 05, 2015 - 03:01 PM
Fabric, this other sentence contains the specific question word “nǎli”, for “Where?”, so there’s no ambiguity about what the Questionable Subject is: the location of [“where” to do x].
Emphasis on "nǎli" is a given, so this sentence always translates to "Where can I buy subway tickets?"
wǒ kěyǐ zài nǎli mǎi dìtiě piào? (fwiw, my Mandarin-speaking girlfriend prefers this one)
I can, at where, buy subway tickets?
Zài nǎli wǒ kěyǐ mǎi dìtiě piào?
At where can I buy subway tickets?
However, in the original question you asked about, there was only the generic question word “ma” for the whole sentence, so it kind of left a little ambiguity as to what the Questionable Subject was...
1. what you can buy at this location: "At this place, what can I buy...tickets?"
2. confirmation that this is the right place: "Please confirm that this is the correct place to buy tickets?".
Without a specific question word like "nǎli", it becomes helpful to preface the sentence with the Questionable Subject to remove that ambiguity.
Again, I would like to know what Fluenz has to say about this, since it wasn't really explained in the lessons.
Emphasis on "nǎli" is a given, so this sentence always translates to "Where can I buy subway tickets?"
wǒ kěyǐ zài nǎli mǎi dìtiě piào? (fwiw, my Mandarin-speaking girlfriend prefers this one)
I can, at where, buy subway tickets?
Zài nǎli wǒ kěyǐ mǎi dìtiě piào?
At where can I buy subway tickets?
However, in the original question you asked about, there was only the generic question word “ma” for the whole sentence, so it kind of left a little ambiguity as to what the Questionable Subject was...
1. what you can buy at this location: "At this place, what can I buy...tickets?"
2. confirmation that this is the right place: "Please confirm that this is the correct place to buy tickets?".
Without a specific question word like "nǎli", it becomes helpful to preface the sentence with the Questionable Subject to remove that ambiguity.
Again, I would like to know what Fluenz has to say about this, since it wasn't really explained in the lessons.
Sep 08, 2015 - 08:05 AM
Hallo everyone, Fabrice, you were absolutely right: as we tell you in sessions 24 and 30 location words go right after "kěyǐ" so "zài zhèli" should go right after "kěyǐ" and the sentence should be:
Wǒ kěyǐ zài zhèli yòng zhè ge piào ma?
We have changed this and the correction will be available in the next update. Thanks very much for letting us know!
Wǒ kěyǐ zài zhèli yòng zhè ge piào ma?
We have changed this and the correction will be available in the next update. Thanks very much for letting us know!